But one really important issue to me was gay marriage. (BTW...I AM NOT GAY.) And although they didn't differ significantly on their stances...the reasoning was much more disturbing for me for Obama. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman." He is in favor of civil unions. Which is better than nothing. But I really didn't like that he promotes his position as fighting for *civil rights* and yet won't support the civil rights of gays and lesbians. Religion and TRADITION should have nothing to do with it. His personal religious viewpoint however doesn't stop him from being in favor of a woman's right to choose to have an abortion...(which I agree with) but I have to say...his use of religion, when it suits him, bothers me.
I think that *if* god exists...I doubt that god made a mistake in our creation. I think we were all made exactly as we were supposed to be. Including gay people. I don't think that's a mistake. And who are we? We are HUMANS. We are imperfect. If god does exist, then who are we to assume that god made a mistake when god created gays, and lesbians? It seems very arrogant of us to negate god. To make rules that ban the love that god created? I doubt very much that Jesus would do that. I somehow don't see him standing in line with a bunch of picketers yelling hate propaganda about how gays are an abomination. The bible was written by man not god. And these hate laws are also written by man not god. And as for tradition... Holy Crap! Tradition is one of the weakest arguments I have ever heard. There are a long line of abhorrent traditions that I am glad we have done away with. It was tradition..that interracial marriages were banned (with many of the same arguments that are made against gay marriages today.) Women were considered property...that's a pretty lame tradition. The list of unfair and unethical traditions is pretty long.
Clinton has very similar positions (which I also think are lame) regarding gay marriage. However, she seems to be more flexible on the issue. And is listening and having dialog's with her friends and the American people about this issue. Her reasoning for being in favor of a civil union and not gay marriage has shifted over the last few years. It comes down to what she thinks we can actually accomplish. She doesn't think that the American people would be overwhelmingly in favor of gay marriage. Sadly...I agree with her.
But I also don't care. I don't give a shit about what people in the bible belt are willing to let us have. I think that it comes down to basic civil rights. And it is one of the most obvious inequities in our American society. We currently have 2nd class citizens. Who we ignore as being such. It really bothers me. And I don't see this as just an issue for gays and lesbians. I see this as an issue for us all. As the creators of our society, I think that it should be of concern to us all, that there is fairness, tolerance, and room for us all. You cannot give rights to some and exclude others. I don't want to live in a society like this.
Anyhoo...back to my friend. We ended up disagreeing on the issue of gay marriage. She is opposed to it. She is also a Christian. She said something about how "words are sacred. And how words should have the meaning that they were intended to. Marriage is between a man and a woman." And I'm thinking...but who defined those terms? And why should we abide by them now? She told me that she has lots of friends who are gay and some of them she even likes more than her Christian friends...so it's not that she has a problem with gay people, it's just that she believes that *marriage* is a religious term and it is between a man and a woman. To which I said we're not talking about religious marriages..If a certain church doesn't want to grant gay marriages...then fine. Whatever. It's their right. But when our government imparts rights onto only a certain segment of the population simply because of their sexual orientation..that's just not right. I don't care about religious unions...I'm talking about the legal ones...the ones that give you equal rights in this country. She was just against it. She doesn't think that gays and lesbians are right somehow. She gave me a bunch of arguments...like: biologically it doesn't even make sense...we weren't meant to be that way. And also the slippery slope argument of if we legalize gay marriage...then what's to stop us from legalizing pedophilia!!! BAH! I was so upset by that one that it was hard for me to articulate my counter arguments. I just said that there is no logical comparison to the consensual union of two ADULTS, where no one is being hurt. To child molestation. And I think that to even compare the two is morally repugnant. ....ahhhh. This was a hard conversation. She is my friend. I do like her. I love her. But I hate her position on this. There's more to this story...but whateve. I should let it go. The thing is...I really don't know how we are ever going to get rid of things like insidious yet pervasive forms of prejudice that are in our culture..if we don't ever have these uncomfortable conversations where we really voice our feelings and beliefs and listen to those of other people.
- Mood:
annoyed
Top notch rant though. Fuck politicians who try to use their religion to appeal to bigots.
You bring up a good question for me though...How does one be a true friend to queer folk? I would like to imagine I am but frankly..I wouldn't even know where to begin. I really think my friend *thinks* she is a good friend to queer people. (even though I wouldn't fully agree.)The irony in this situation..is that her own daughter is at the very least bisexual. (But I suspect perhaps more leaning towards the lesbian side.) It's part of why her commentary gets under my skin extra deep.
besides that, there are a lot of things that aren't biologically "meant to be" - like all those disabled people around the world... so, what does your friend suggest we do with those people? besides, people like fucking - that's what sex is about! most people don't get turned on about sex by thinking about having a baby. bluntly speaking, babies are just a by-product of our sex drive. how devious reproduction is - bait and switch! get us hooked in by orgasms and leave us with squalling babies.
anyway, the point being, a sex drive is a sex drive - who cares who gets the engine going? WE ARE NOT BUILT TO CONNECT SEX WITH BABY-MAKING. and besides, tons of animals hump other animals of the same sex. it's not against biology. and it's not like anyone is under the impression that two dudes or two chicks are going to make a baby by having sex with each other, so where's the big conflict with biology? they're not really doing anything at all "deviant" in any way with nature. we interfere more with biology when we take antibiotics... okay anyway i'm preaching to the choir, so... yeah...
and clinton is right that the american people aren't going to buy it yet. i think that some of the states will need to legalize it and have it legalized for a while before the federal government will successfully pass any national legislation on the topic. i think only in that situation will people see that society and families don't fall to pieces when *gasp* two men or women are allowed to have the same kind of partnership as heterosexual couples. and then all the gay folk in the states without marriage will be more pissed off that THEIR state doesn't have it and it will cause a wonderful ruckus and pressure to get it DONE.
yeah and while i like obama i definitely don't think he's the perfect candidate. but mostly i think that both obama and clinton know that their electability will take a dive if they go for too many of those "crazy liberal" ideas. *sigh* i wish our country was a little more progressive! what happened to us?
..."bait and switch"...hehehe made me laugh. Good sense of humor you!
...ummm...and Yes..I too like Obama. He's not that different than Clinton honestly. But for me she's got the slight edge because of his remarkably stupid comments about tradition and religion. E-gads! It's so strange to me that one who cares (and I really believe he does) about civil rights...and has devoted a large part of his life to fighting for them...doesn't care about equality for a group of people who aren't like him. It makes me think about all of the racism that our country had in the 1800's...and how when immigrants first began coming in droves..first it was one group that was put down...but then they worked their way up through the ranks and then put down a different ethnic group. Italians, Polish, Catholics, Jews, Germans, Irish, Blacks, Hispanics...bla bla bla...someone's always got to be on the bottom of the heap. Why? It's so silly.